Ep 13: Stop Apologizing for Being Exceptional: The Tall Poppy Problem

You're successful. Six figures, maybe seven. You've earned it. But someone told you not to be a "tall poppy" because tall poppies get cut down.

So you shrink. Duck your shoulders. Downplay your wins. Act like your success was luck.

That shit needs to stop.

Dennis Procopio (The Bro Coach®) and Andrew Bontz tackle the shame high-achieving men feel about owning their excellence. It started when Dennis created an exclusive group for his highest-performing clients and had to ask himself: am I allowed to call certain men elite?

Story that'll hit home: Dennis coached a tall, handsome, financially secure Australian guy who physically ducked and hunched his shoulders when talking to women. Why? He was taught "don't be a tall poppy because tall poppies get cut down." Dennis's coaching? Fuck that. If you're a bartender with big tits, you don't wear a sweater. You work what you've got.

This episode gets into why men apologize for being exceptional, where the shame around success comes from, and what "elite" actually means (hint: it's not about old money). Dennis shares his rags-to-riches story—from roaches and government cheese to coaching millionaires—and why merit-based excellence deserves celebration, not hiding.

Also: self-worth vs self-esteem, why humility can become self-sabotage, and how to own your talents without being a dick.

TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Why Dennis Had to Defend Elitism 6:01 - What Elite Actually Means (Not What You Think) 16:00 - The Tall Poppy Problem: Australian Client Story 27:00 - When Humility Becomes Self-Sabotage 36:00 - The Penis Metaphor (Yeah, We Go There) 43:00 - Elite Doesn't Mean Rich: The Peace Paradox 48:00 - Andrew's Journey: From Shrinking to Standing Tall 56:00 - Your Right to Pursue Excellence Without Apology

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

• Why successful men shrink themselves and apologize for excellence
• The tall poppy syndrome and how it keeps high-achievers small
• What "elite" really means (merit-based, not privilege-based)
• The difference between self-esteem and self-worth
• How to own your talents without feeling like a fraud
• Why you should celebrate exceptionalism in brotherhood

THIS HITS IF YOU'RE

• Downplaying your wins because you don't want to seem arrogant
• Financially successful but feeling guilty about it
• Shrinking yourself so others don't feel threatened
• Ready to own your excellence without apology

TAKE ACTION Book your free 30-minute strategy session: https://www.manuplifecoaching.com/application

CONNECT Website: https://brocoach.com
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TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@manuplifecoaching

ABOUT THE SHOW The Bro Coach® Podcast with Dennis Procopio. Not red-pill garbage. Not therapy. Real coaching for guys who achieved success but missed the point. Dennis has 25,000+ hours working with high-earning men ($150K to $3M+) who look successful but feel stuck.

Weekly episodes on masculinity, elite performance, relationships, and the inner work most men avoid.

TAKE ACTION Free 30-minute strategy session: https://www.manuplifecoaching.com/application

CONNECT Website: https://brocoach.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/manuplifecoaching TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@manuplifecoaching YouTube: https://youtube.com/@manuplifecoaching

ABOUT THE SHOW The Bro Coach® Podcast with Dennis Procopio. Not red-pill garbage. Not therapy. Real coaching for guys who achieved success but missed the point. Dennis has 25,000+ hours working with high-earning men ($150K to $3M+) who look successful but feel stuck.

Transcript

00:00:00:06 - 00:00:23:18
Speaker 1
Most men want more. More clarity. More respect. More control over their lives. But few know how to get it. Welcome to the pro coach podcast with Dennis Procopio, the founder of Man Up Life Coaching and the man behind thousands of transformed lives. Not red pill, not therapy. Just the evolved man's blueprint for strength, presence and purpose. All right.

00:00:23:18 - 00:00:32:00
Speaker 1
Welcome to episode 12 of the Bro Coach podcast. I'm Andrew Barnes. I'm here with Dennis Procopio. Thanks for joining us on this Friday evening.

00:00:32:02 - 00:00:38:02
Speaker 2
Hey it's Dennis, I'm the bro coach, and I'm ready to talk about guy stuff. What do you got, Andrew?

00:00:38:04 - 00:01:03:08
Speaker 1
So you recently wrote a blog post in defense of elite ism, and it was a fascinating read to me. You talked a lot about some of the things you've been through your history, but there was one particular part of it to where as you're talking about elite ism and kind of what it means to be, you know, because we call, you, we, you call yourself on our website that we're an elite coach, right?

00:01:03:10 - 00:01:16:21
Speaker 1
And that can be framed by some people in a negative light. So I, I'm super excited to talk about your viewpoint and why you wrote this blog article and game catching the men up who haven't read it.

00:01:16:23 - 00:01:22:17
Speaker 2
Cool. All right, well, give me a prompt, man. Tell me. Tell me what you want to know, because.

00:01:22:17 - 00:01:24:21
Speaker 3
I, you know, otherwise I'm just going to pull the.

00:01:24:21 - 00:01:27:16
Speaker 2
String and just go for an hour, man.

00:01:27:18 - 00:01:35:18
Speaker 1
So why do you feel like elitism? You had to defend it, right? Like, why do you think that was important?

00:01:35:20 - 00:02:13:07
Speaker 2
Okay, so here's what happened. It was, sometime in the middle of the night. My family was sleeping. I couldn't sleep because I had, this thing on my mind, which is in man up life coaching. I am putting together a group that is a combination of sort of a once every couple of weeks, bro zoom hangout. But also, we have so much intelligence in our group.

00:02:13:09 - 00:02:52:16
Speaker 2
And guys who are either somewhere in between fin and tech. They are really the cream of the crop. And I made the joke on our first meeting that this group was going to be called, the mock Men of Distinction, and it was not a free for all for anybody in the organization. But I was specifically carefully cherry picking the people based on my knowledge of who they are.

00:02:52:16 - 00:03:30:07
Speaker 2
These are a lot of these guys are guys who have made a ton of money. A lot of these guys are guys who are really, really, really high above average intelligence, scary problem solvers, just computers. And they're also people who have significant I experience already when I is really only 2 or 3 years old. We're talking people who have created, tech startups, sold tech startups.

00:03:30:09 - 00:03:50:01
Speaker 2
And I thought, I think it would be a really good idea to revive the old man up life coaching, fireside chats, which is what we used to call our meetings. And I don't know what this is going to be called, but I know the guys I want in it, and I know what they have in common.

00:03:50:03 - 00:04:23:05
Speaker 2
And it occurred to me right then, you have a business that is called man up Life coaching, elite life coaching for men. And you are now skimming the best of these men off of the top and putting them in a room together. So here you are arguably making a decision about who the elite are of your group. How do you feel about that?

00:04:23:06 - 00:05:02:21
Speaker 2
And I didn't feel great about it. There are guys in my organization who are wonderful husbands, wonderful fathers. Not especially great at math, don't have a whole ton of money, have managed to scrape together enough to pay for sessions, but they're here to learn how to make money. They haven't made their millions. They don't have anything that they're a master of, you know, they're not like, oh, well, let me just list my accolades.

00:05:02:23 - 00:05:38:11
Speaker 2
So I felt a fit of conscience. Putting together a group that admittedly was chosen because these guys were in some way exceptional in my group rather than average, according to certain and specific criteria. So it led me to think about a leader ism and what I really mean when I say that. Or is it maybe time, after 13 years of doing this, to change that.

00:05:38:11 - 00:05:41:17
Speaker 3
Freakin slogan, you know, so.

00:05:41:19 - 00:06:01:12
Speaker 2
That and my shoulders, you know, barking because I've been swinging a kettlebell around lately, got me up out of bed and I decided at midnight. Okay, I need to write this. It's not going away. So based on your reading of this thing, and I guess if anybody's listening to this and they're like, I'd love to read the article.

00:06:01:14 - 00:06:30:21
Speaker 2
You can always go to Man Up Life coaching.com/blog and anything that any of our coaches have ever written is there. So, what Andrew, when you read the article, before I go any deeper into how I define a lead to some, what was your expectation when you saw the title, and how did it kind of throw you a curveball?

00:06:30:23 - 00:06:58:02
Speaker 1
I mean, it, I think for me it calls out, like my parents raising me, kind of like they would, you know, talk about the Rhinelander elite, you know, like this group of people that made a bunch of money that thinks their shit doesn't stink, that they play by their own rules, and that the rules don't apply to them, and their kids get special treatment and and that kind of stuff, too.

00:06:58:03 - 00:07:44:22
Speaker 1
So I like that word elite, you know, in that context and with, you know, some programing that I'm trying to on wire that's attached to a lot of scarcity thinking in my life. Like there's that like voice of my parents, you know, that talks about kind of like the people with money, right. So it that's, you know, as I looked at the title and kind of like ponder that, that was, you know, for the at least for that word, that's my, my reaction to like people who are it's one of those things where it's like people like if they call themselves cool, like, I'm a cool dad, usually not super cool, like, he's he's

00:07:44:22 - 00:08:03:02
Speaker 1
wearing cargo pants and hey, dudes. And, those aren't necessarily style. He's. Yeah, it's his kids that he's cool. Right. So like, or calling yourself alpha, you know, like I'm an alpha and you're like, oh. But, so.

00:08:03:02 - 00:08:08:08
Speaker 3
So I get it, I get it. The idea here is that is that.

00:08:08:10 - 00:08:56:11
Speaker 2
You were raised in an environment. You know, I'm originally I'm born in Pennsylvania. I was not born with a silver spoon. I have an Italian family that, you know, came here from Italy, southern Italy, and did well, but they did that as a group. And, you know, cue The Godfather music, you know, and, my mother is, ethnically Jewish, although she, you know, sort of would go on to renounce her, Jewishness as it were, and practice Catholicism as my father's wife.

00:08:56:13 - 00:09:17:22
Speaker 2
The moral of the story is my dad, even though he came from, immigrant stock, these were still people who had the idea we're going to come to America and we're going to we're going to make it happen. There is a tremendous amount of self-worth, like, this is where I'm going to make it big. All you have to do is grind.

00:09:17:22 - 00:09:45:04
Speaker 2
This is the land of opportunity. And the idea was to, you know, you know, you have these names like the Duponts and the Rockefeller, Rockefellers or whatever, who were recognized as the elites, you know, established, you know, you know, by their big Warbucks that they made, you know, during, you know, the Industrial Revolution and World War, you know, one and two.

00:09:45:06 - 00:10:15:15
Speaker 2
So they're like, yeah, I'm going to go to America. The streets are paved with gold. And that's the land of opportunity, home of the free and the brave blablabla. Right. And in the meantime, the true 1%, the actual, the actual elite are getting rich off of selling them the exact axes and the offs. You know that they think they're going to use to get rich when there's really not that much gold left in those hills.

00:10:15:17 - 00:11:15:11
Speaker 2
My mom being Jewish, we all know the term Jewish American princess. She. Even though she renounced her family, she still maintained this sort of cultural air of entitlement. And so it was weird as a kid that I was brought up actually really poor, in an abusive environment where there were, you know, drugs and guns. And in my article, I talk about being physically abused and a victim of molestation and alcoholism and drugs and roaches and rats and fleas and, you know, kids dying from eating lead paint chips, basically any, you know, gnarly super white trash shit that could happen to a person.

00:11:15:13 - 00:12:05:05
Speaker 2
You know, that was unfortunately part of my childhood experience after my mom and my dad went their separate ways and, you know, it didn't work out. So what's my point? My point is, I was always in the ghetto, or the hood or, you know, whatever you want to call it. The street, but still with this idea from an Italian family who believed that they were going to grind until they made it and that they deserved to make it, and a Jewish mother who came from a family that had managed to, stockpile wealth, I had this kind of idea that at some point I was going to get my comeuppance.

00:12:05:07 - 00:12:09:23
Speaker 2
So my.

00:12:10:00 - 00:12:30:04
Speaker 2
Thankfully, I was an intelligent kid, and that's a gift. And I was able to apply my intelligence in school or schools in the, in the, in the blog article, I mentioned that I've been to 24 different schools.

00:12:30:06 - 00:12:52:13
Speaker 2
And yeah, I went to school with people who were super white or super privileged, you know, or both. But usually white because it was the 70s in the 80s, you know, with the one off wealthy black kid or Indian kid or whatever, but it was usually white kids that were going on ski trips that were, you know, their families were hosting foreign exchange students.

00:12:52:13 - 00:13:03:12
Speaker 2
You know, they they went to they went on vacations, you know, European vacations or whatever. Whereas I was like eating pop tarts or.

00:13:03:12 - 00:13:15:24
Speaker 3
Whatever, you know, you know, like spooning, like, you know, kool aid into my into my mouth, you know, you know.

00:13:15:24 - 00:14:02:05
Speaker 2
For the sugar rush. And so somewhere along the way, my dedication to academics led to a full scholarship to Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art, which is a historic school, where, President, where Lincoln, made his famous, might makes right speech, which won him first in New York and then ultimately the presidency and Cooper Union was established by Peter Cooper to offer an equivalent value of education to anyone who didn't have the means but had the character and the talent.

00:14:02:05 - 00:14:26:17
Speaker 2
So it was an opportunity to get a merit based scholarship. And somewhere between being a kid who got good grades, when I finally shaped up, and being a guy who learned how to draw because there was always a pencil and a paper around when I was hiding from abusive parents or, you know, in an apartment by myself or.

00:14:26:19 - 00:14:27:06
Speaker 3
You know.

00:14:27:06 - 00:15:06:11
Speaker 2
On the line waiting for the government cheese. I eventually learned how to draw, to some degree, how to paint. And I had my crowning moment when I graduated from the Boces Cultural Arts, Center in Syosset, New York, and went on to become a, Cooper Union student. And suddenly I'm in New York City, I'm in school with a bunch of rich kids because rich kids are the ones that.

00:15:06:11 - 00:15:17:23
Speaker 3
Are allowed to go to school for art. They're not in low tech, learning aids, facts, skills, you know, you know, and so and,

00:15:18:00 - 00:15:26:18
Speaker 2
And, and also their families are like donating big money to the school, which kind of greases the wheels and gets the in.

00:15:26:20 - 00:15:27:11
Speaker 3
So the next.

00:15:27:11 - 00:16:00:19
Speaker 2
Thing you know, it's kind of a rags to riches story. And I go from being this derelict human being to this talent phenom who was kind of an ugly duckling, didn't realize I was handsome, didn't realize I was in good shape, didn't think I was anything special, and the next thing you know, the pinky up crowd is saying how much for your art?

00:16:00:21 - 00:16:37:10
Speaker 2
And I don't care how many zeroes I added to that thing, they'd pay it. And I suddenly realized, Holy crap, I have earned my right to be here. I have risen to a level of social elite status on the merit of my exceptionalism. And that is what Man up life coaching is about. It's not about catering to rich kids.

00:16:37:12 - 00:17:07:12
Speaker 2
It's about offering anyone who has the drive and is willing to do the work and opportunity to learn how to grind so that you not only, transcend to average and achieve exceptionalism in your life, but also don't feel like an imposter once you make it.

00:17:07:14 - 00:17:52:08
Speaker 1
I think it's a really key topic to talk about to where discovering your exceptionalism, because I think in today's world there's there's a large group of men that may not have the self-confidence or the self-awareness to acknowledge where they're exceptional and or they haven't been maybe been encouraged or inspired or like, like for me, you know, there's most of a lot of my life I've gotten to where I get because I'm talented, right?

00:17:52:08 - 00:18:22:16
Speaker 1
Where things, some things come a little easier to me than other people. But there's also that part where you don't necessarily want to let your light shine too bright, right? To where it's like, if I'm exceptional, then I'm maybe I'm weird or I don't want the attention or, you know, you didn't necessarily have that voice or mentor or coach for that matter, that sees that that diamond in the rough to, you know, quote Aladdin.

00:18:22:21 - 00:18:24:11
Speaker 1
Right?

00:18:24:13 - 00:18:26:11
Speaker 2
Right. Sure.

00:18:26:13 - 00:18:53:08
Speaker 1
So I, I think that's a fascinating topic to tour. That you as a coach, you have a very unique place where you can see these exceptional men sitting across from you. And oftentimes you're in your own little head, you're on your own little blinders. You don't see how exceptional you are at certain things because it comes easy to you.

00:18:53:10 - 00:19:02:14
Speaker 1
It's super interesting to you. But you know, other people, it's like, that's boring or dumb or nerdy or like, hey, nice job nerd. You know?

00:19:02:16 - 00:19:03:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:19:03:17 - 00:19:27:18
Speaker 1
100% that kind of stuff. But then now at this age, you get into your 40s and 50s and you see these, these nerd alerts, all of a sudden selling tech companies and, and, owning a bunch of Bitcoin and, and all those things, dude, it's like, my magic cards and protractor were, actually paid me. Well, you know, a couple decades later.

00:19:27:18 - 00:20:09:16
Speaker 2
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And, you know, it's funny that you say that because, every single guy in my organization. Shows up with what I would consider obvious strengths. And he also shows up with what I would consider some pretty obvious, areas for improvement. I'm always careful never to say weaknesses or deficiencies, because the male brain will hear that and latch on to that and never let it go.

00:20:09:18 - 00:20:51:22
Speaker 2
So from the moment I meet a guy, because I stand in my power as not just, you know, my accolades, I'm Dennis, who went to this school. I'm Dennis, who graduated, was valedictorian of his high school. I'm Dennis, who had a 4.0 in college. I'm Dennis, who, you know, as as we've reiterated, you know, painfully at this point in every time we meet, we have this tendency of, as guys to want to, list out the things that make us valuable on paper so that we have high self-esteem.

00:20:51:24 - 00:21:32:18
Speaker 2
But self-worth is when you can walk into a room no one knows if you're, a multi-millionaire or you're homeless, but your aura is, just has, has a gravity to it. And people are just like, who is that? Like there's a vibration that feels strong, like the force is strong with this person. I am not ashamed or shy about saying I am that person.

00:21:32:20 - 00:21:33:13
Speaker 2
Now. You're how.

00:21:33:13 - 00:21:36:14
Speaker 3
Tall? Six. Four.

00:21:36:16 - 00:21:37:23
Speaker 3


00:21:38:00 - 00:21:43:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And a half and a half.

00:21:43:02 - 00:21:43:16
Speaker 3
We're not trying.

00:21:43:16 - 00:21:47:17
Speaker 2
To cheat you out of that half inch bro. You're nearly six five.

00:21:47:19 - 00:21:49:19
Speaker 1
Yeah I earned that shit.

00:21:49:21 - 00:21:56:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. No. Right I get it, by standing up really tall and doing yoga.

00:21:56:19 - 00:22:24:13
Speaker 2
But but so the reason I mention your height is because you must know. You know, by contrast, like, I'm somewhere between 510 and 511, basically a Jewish six foot. And I do not have the chip on my shoulder that some guys have about, like, you know, where they rank in terms of height.

00:22:24:15 - 00:22:26:21
Speaker 1
I'm Napoleon complex.

00:22:26:23 - 00:22:41:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. Little man syndrome. I'm good. You know, I, I feel like I'm a perfect height. Like it works. I have never had anybody complain about my height. I've never been somewhere where there wasn't a lateral or a step stool if I needed.

00:22:41:04 - 00:22:44:14
Speaker 3
One, you know.

00:22:44:16 - 00:23:24:22
Speaker 2
And, anyway. But I've noticed. So my son Bennet was born with dwarfism. He will always stand out because of his deviation from the from the mean. He's a an exceptionally short person. So immediately people are going to join you, like, sort of cream their heads in his direction and have something to say about it. Because we have this tendency to want to other people who are far away from whatever that comfortable, average meme is.

00:23:24:24 - 00:23:35:04
Speaker 2
You and I have had conversations about how, as a bigger guy, you've experienced that same weird sort of, othering, haven't you?

00:23:35:06 - 00:24:00:16
Speaker 1
Hey man, stop spinning your wheels. If you're serious about leveling up your career, your relationships, and your mindset, it's time to man up at man up Life Coaching. We cut the excuses and build discipline, confidence, and purpose. Book your free strategy session now at Man Up Life Coaching e-commerce application. Don't fill it out if you're not ready to grind, but if you are, this call could change your life.

00:24:00:18 - 00:24:35:10
Speaker 1
Man up life coaching, elite life coaching for men by men. Yeah for sure. Like, oddly enough that sometimes people see the 65, you know, 240 guy as like someone they need to prove themselves against or need to chip them down to make them look higher. And the, you know, the caveman kind of brain or more of the immature middle school brain, you know, sometimes when bars or people get drunk, you revert to back to middle school brain.

00:24:35:12 - 00:24:49:15
Speaker 1
You know, where they needed challenge the biggest guy in the room because, you know, whatever ego or whatnot is driving them to do so. But yeah, I've experienced that.

00:24:49:17 - 00:25:12:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's an episode of, The Sopranos where Tony gets sick and like, a wolf pack the moment the, you know, the other guys start seeing him sick, they see it as weakness and they start. It was directed great. They start being a little bit more confrontational, a little bit more, challenging. And so he picks the, like, biggest guy in the room.

00:25:12:04 - 00:25:17:16
Speaker 2
He's like, hey, muscles marinara. You're going to. Yeah. You got something you want to say? So not tone I what you want.

00:25:17:16 - 00:25:22:23
Speaker 3
You want something with me? He's like nah. And then he goes any like beats the guy up.

00:25:22:23 - 00:25:26:04
Speaker 2
And when everybody sees him do that, they're.

00:25:26:04 - 00:25:29:06
Speaker 3
Like, okay, tone, okay, tone. You know, like, we're cool.

00:25:29:08 - 00:25:42:06
Speaker 2
And he reestablishes his alpha status, right? So, sure, anytime someone wants to prove themselves in a group, they're going to go for the biggest, strongest guy. So it makes you a target. Everybody knows.

00:25:42:06 - 00:25:44:05
Speaker 3
That. You walk. You're a group of guys, walks.

00:25:44:05 - 00:25:47:04
Speaker 2
Up to another group of guys. The toughest guy in your group's.

00:25:47:04 - 00:25:48:06
Speaker 3
Not going to walk up to the.

00:25:48:06 - 00:25:49:14
Speaker 2
Little guy.

00:25:49:16 - 00:25:55:17
Speaker 3
And be like, I'll take him. You know, they're going to walk up to the.

00:25:55:17 - 00:26:05:09
Speaker 2
Bruiser, right? And so unfortunately, you're getting hated on and I know you to be like one of the nicest guys out there. Like, you're, you.

00:26:05:09 - 00:26:08:12
Speaker 3
Know, you you don't you don't you don't.

00:26:08:14 - 00:26:31:05
Speaker 2
Act scary in any way. But people are going to see you as a threat. So what does this have to do with the lead ism? Well, I'll tell you. I was working with a client in, Australia for a minute on the Sunshine Coast by, Brisbane. And he's a tall guy, tall, handsome guy, plenty of money, eligible bachelor, but very low self-esteem.

00:26:31:07 - 00:26:53:18
Speaker 2
And one of the things we were working on was like, dude, I'm a musician. I'm handsome. At least that's what people tell me. Why am I such a pussy around women? And I'm like, I don't know, dude, but we're going to have to work on that because you're you're you're wasting your good stuff here, man.

00:26:53:18 - 00:26:55:03
Speaker 3
You're you are you're.

00:26:55:03 - 00:27:23:19
Speaker 2
It's like, you know, I'm not, you know, gain out on you. But you're a tall, handsome, you know, talented, guy, super smart, great sense of humor. You know, plenty of cash in the bank, like, you, like, set for life type of thing. And, you just need to work on your confidence. So when I would send him out into the world, I would, like, send him on missions.

00:27:23:19 - 00:27:57:18
Speaker 2
So, like, go to a coffee shop and intentionally try to spark conversation with some, you know, some young woman that was in his dating radius that he thought was kind of hard or interesting or whatever he would, he would do this thing where he would shrink his shoulders and he would duck down. And he's like, you know, I realize I do that, and it must come across as really like sort of sheepish and weird.

00:27:57:18 - 00:28:06:11
Speaker 2
But in my upbringing, I was taught, don't be a tall poppy, because tall poppies get cut down.

00:28:06:13 - 00:28:08:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:28:08:10 - 00:28:19:15
Speaker 2
Like literally. And so my coaching for him is like, nah, fuck that dude. If you have if you're a bartender with big tits, you don't wear a sweater.

00:28:19:17 - 00:28:29:01
Speaker 3
You, you you work what you got. You're a tall guy like, stand taller like.

00:28:29:03 - 00:29:22:08
Speaker 2
Tower over people. And that's where we get to the shame that is often associated with taking ownership of excellence, which is where this started. So you said. It's great that as a guy who comes from, you know, roaches and rats, who now you know, is in the 1% for wealth, and who. Was an art fag in high school and college and somehow evolved to be a voice of leadership among not just men, but like men.

00:29:22:08 - 00:29:32:14
Speaker 2
Men like real wolf of Wall Street, you know, Alpha warrior men.

00:29:32:16 - 00:29:59:20
Speaker 2
It's awesome that you're able to identify a guy's potential for greatness and encourage him to lean into that without feeling embarrassed or ashamed, because part of being a dude is some sort of like, humility thing you're supposed to do, right?

00:29:59:22 - 00:30:03:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, especially in the Midwest, right?

00:30:03:17 - 00:30:46:12
Speaker 2
Right? Right. Like and the and then the South. When I was in New Orleans, you know, which I spent years in New Orleans, it wasn't only in rural Louisiana, but in neighboring states like Mississippi, Alabama, Mississippi and Alabama, really, that you could spot a Yankee a mile away? Because they had no problem getting out, tooting their own horn, whereas a Southerner would never in a million years brag on themselves.

00:30:46:12 - 00:31:00:01
Speaker 2
They just let their actions do the talk. And so and they and it's sneaky. They feel like, you know. Yeah, I play some chess, and then you'd go and get your ass handed to you in a high hat and come to find out.

00:31:00:03 - 00:31:06:13
Speaker 3
They were the chess champions. They're in school or something. You're like, oh, you could have said that too.

00:31:06:14 - 00:31:11:15
Speaker 2
I wasn't trying to brag. I don't know who you are.

00:31:11:17 - 00:31:40:06
Speaker 2
So one of the things that I have to do is I have to tell guys, look, dude, in this day and age, your personal brand is what you're selling. And if you don't have the cajones to sell your personal brand in a way that makes people want to buy it, you're doing yourself a disservice. It doesn't mean you have to brag.

00:31:40:06 - 00:32:10:06
Speaker 2
It doesn't mean you have to lie. It doesn't mean you have to exaggerate. But if you can deadlift 500 pounds, that's there's no shame in sharing that you worked hard for that. Right. If you, you know, whatever. If you took a test and were accepted into Mensa, like, hey, I'd like to share something that I'm proud of.

00:32:10:08 - 00:32:18:14
Speaker 2
And in a group of men who are truly loving, truly supportive, we're going to I'm not going to.

00:32:18:14 - 00:32:22:04
Speaker 3
Go the critics is better than me. I'm going to say.

00:32:22:06 - 00:32:26:18
Speaker 2
I'm happy to have a mensa bro on my team, because I might need some problem.

00:32:26:19 - 00:32:28:16
Speaker 3
Solved. I might need him to help me do.

00:32:28:16 - 00:32:29:20
Speaker 2
Some brain thinking.

00:32:29:22 - 00:32:32:15
Speaker 3
You know, I might need that tough guy to help.

00:32:32:15 - 00:32:33:23
Speaker 2
Me get something on that shelf I.

00:32:33:23 - 00:32:35:20
Speaker 3
Can't reach. Like we're a.

00:32:35:20 - 00:33:16:13
Speaker 2
Team, so we should celebrate each other's exceptionalism. And we should all encourage each other to strive for exceptionalism. And when I use the term elite ism, I don't mean old money. I don't mean, you know, people who were born into some the bourgeoisie, some sort of, you know, people who are royals. I mean, I mean, the athletic athlete who had everything going against him and made it happen anyway.

00:33:16:15 - 00:33:50:09
Speaker 2
Yes, sir. You are elite. You're elite because you're above average. Average. Alex Honnold, the dude who just, you know, crazy climber is way up. Type-A, 101. And more impressively, free soloed the rock face of El Capitan like 3000 freakin feet. That guy has every right to say I am not only an elite athlete, but possibly one of the best athletes that ever lived.

00:33:50:09 - 00:33:55:12
Speaker 2
And you know what? I'd like to thank me because I worked pretty damn hard making.

00:33:55:12 - 00:34:00:03
Speaker 3
That shit happen, you know, and I'd like to thank gravity.

00:34:00:07 - 00:34:01:07
Speaker 2
For not pulling.

00:34:01:07 - 00:34:03:16
Speaker 3
Me off that the mountain and killing me.

00:34:03:16 - 00:34:12:13
Speaker 2
So that's it. So that's what I mean by elitism.

00:34:12:15 - 00:34:49:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a much different. Context. Right. Because I think that if some people they look at becoming elite or, you know, still the tag line of elite coaching for men, right, where they have that reaction of like, oh, you think you're better than me, you know, where it comes from, a place of scarcity, right? But what you're talking about is like the true healthy masculine man where it's like, I have abundance, you know, like I celebrate my a weakness in what I'm good at.

00:34:49:11 - 00:35:15:12
Speaker 1
But I also have the self-awareness to know that I need to surround myself with other elite men, because all that does is just elevate the tribe and elevate me to tour. It's like, okay, well, I can't be elite in everything, but I can. I can kick ass in one thing, but fully aware that, you know, maybe I'm not great at another thing, but I got a dude for that, you know, and he's freaking awesome.

00:35:15:14 - 00:35:31:19
Speaker 1
And and the fact that, like, you being great doesn't take away from someone else being great, or if someone isn't quite great. Yeah, it's like it's not it's not a dig against you. Right? It's it's not a threat. Right.

00:35:31:21 - 00:35:33:24
Speaker 3
Well, that's just it. That's just it.

00:35:33:24 - 00:36:08:18
Speaker 2
That's exactly it. So, so boy, my brain goes in a bunch of different directions on that one. One of the things that immediately came to mind was, You know, even though it's kind of a weird thing to talk about, like, dudes all think that if they had a, you know, 8 to 12 inch dick that they'd have, like, their life would be so great in some way.

00:36:08:20 - 00:36:24:06
Speaker 2
That's usually the dudes who are nowhere near those numbers that think that. And yet they're the guys who are in that, in that very, very small category.

00:36:24:08 - 00:36:31:14
Speaker 3
Or large category, if you, did it that but anyway, there's, there, there's the I see what they did.

00:36:31:14 - 00:36:46:20
Speaker 2
There, but there are those guys who are like, yeah, I was you know, I inherited my father's freaking fire hose. And, you know, I'll tell you, it didn't really seem to make my mom and.

00:36:46:20 - 00:36:51:19
Speaker 3
Dad's relationship any better. They fought like cats, dogs, you know?

00:36:51:19 - 00:37:21:07
Speaker 2
So I don't know what kind of value that ultimately added to the guy's life. Yes. Whatever. You know, kind of hung like a pony. But, there's you know, I've had good sex and bad sex, and at the end of the day, you know, what's more important to me is being in a loving relationship. And I almost feel like sometimes it's a curse because, you know, my girlfriend's super jealous.

00:37:21:09 - 00:37:39:24
Speaker 2
Whereas if I were just average, I feel like maybe she wouldn't be so worried about it. Like, you never know what somebody else's story is. Somewhere, somewhere else out there is somebody who's got a staunch five incher. That's like, I got a wife who likes what I'm working with, and, we love each other. We've got.

00:37:39:24 - 00:37:45:20
Speaker 3
Eight kids, and, we, you know. Yeah, it's not really something I think about.

00:37:45:22 - 00:38:29:05
Speaker 2
And, you know, women appreciate the confidence. And men have this tendency to be measures. So there is a there is a challenging dichotomy here. When you talk about a lead, it's on one hand, I don't want to suggest that you are only valuable when or if you demonstrate exceptionalism in some very, admirable or utilitarian way. That is not the message here.

00:38:29:07 - 00:39:12:24
Speaker 2
You can be perfectly average in any way. Average height, average weight, average looks, average paycheck. And yet your exceptionalism can come simply from having found peace, which for the religious may be having found God, for the spiritual may be, you know, having achieved whatever the modern equivalent of enlightenment is. But when you, hit or a 9000, regardless of your earthly accolades, that two is exceptional.

00:39:13:02 - 00:39:14:22
Speaker 2
Why look around you?

00:39:14:22 - 00:39:17:24
Speaker 3
How many people are at peace?

00:39:18:01 - 00:39:39:21
Speaker 2
If you're someone you know, the richest, the man who knows he has enough, right? So if you're someone who is truly at peace and truly happy, consider what a gift and a blessing you are to the world. And that is a type of elitism, quote unquote, that I think get slept on. And in fact, I have a client right now, really cool guy.

00:39:39:21 - 00:40:20:20
Speaker 2
He's living in, China white bro from, southern, Central California made his money in technology. Is doing very well financially. Let's just say is secure it, is young enough to be able to enjoy a happy life, and yet is old enough to have some wisdom and he hired me in part because he almost has the curse of too many options, because he's, you know, doesn't have kids, has a wonderful wife.

00:40:20:20 - 00:40:32:07
Speaker 2
They don't fight. There's no relationship crap that he needs to, you know, preoccupy himself with figuring out like they're like, yeah, we're just kind of living in, you know.

00:40:32:09 - 00:40:33:18
Speaker 3
Sort of, you know.

00:40:33:21 - 00:40:56:17
Speaker 2
Paradise of sorts. We like each other's company, and every day is just super nice. And there's money if we want to travel and there's money if we want to stay home. And we can pretty much do anything we want. So sometimes being able to do anything turns into having anxiety that you're going to have overwhelm and do nothing.

00:40:56:19 - 00:41:33:08
Speaker 2
And so he said, you know, some of the, some of the happiest people I've ever met in my life were in Bali. He's like, and I mean to tell you, these are not wealthy people. But it was it the grit of their daily lives that was the focus for them. It was the type of community mindset that made these absolutely the nicest people I've ever met on earth.

00:41:33:10 - 00:42:01:19
Speaker 2
And now, as a guy who's doing really well, my aspirations aren't to just continue to stack cheese, you know, because my yacht needs a yacht or fucking whatever. You know, my my, my aspiration is to move to the next level and to recognize that this for me is what exceptionalism truly is. So that value shift is really important.

00:42:01:19 - 00:42:32:12
Speaker 2
So let's get back to elite life coaching for men. Yeah, I'm coaching guys making, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars a year who want to make half a million, coaching guys, making half a mil who are trying to hit that, that 1 million mark. I'm coaching guys who are making millions and are like, I might be in the conversation about potentially being a billionaire in my lifetime.

00:42:32:14 - 00:43:27:07
Speaker 2
I'm coaching guys who have ridiculously hot wives who are also as nice as can be. And so and then I'm coaching guys who have mediocre looking wives, who are also as nice as can be. And everything in between. What do these guys all have in common? They all have in common that quote, elite life coaching for men, for them means I'm looking for a guy like Dennis who at 55 years old, has paid the iron price for both his knowledge and his wisdom, has the scars to prove it, you know, has, like I said, has, you know, licked the freaking last little bit of peanut butter off the spoon, you know, unsure of when

00:43:27:07 - 00:43:49:06
Speaker 2
his next meal would be put water on Cheerios type of thing and is now the definition of successful. I want this guy to be my coach because I want to be exceptional. I want to be in the elite of our fraternity. And I'm not sure.

00:43:49:06 - 00:43:54:23
Speaker 3
What that is, let alone how to get there. You feel me on that?

00:43:55:00 - 00:44:27:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. It's that balance that we've talked a lot about is and you've mentioned earlier, Rich. Rich is the man who knows he has enough money because I think that we've talked about this in previous episodes where you're chasing this thing that society or your parents or whatever told you was the definition of success. And then you see all the these billionaires killing themselves because they're so depressed and unhappy, you know, or millionaires or whatever.

00:44:27:02 - 00:44:58:15
Speaker 1
So all those that, that balance of like, what is that, you know, and definition of like elite coaching to kind of like you almost. I mean, I would almost there's one thing I value about you as a coach is you have an eye for talent. And you have an eye where you see people, because you have such a diverse background, because you've been around all these different scenarios in your life.

00:44:58:17 - 00:44:58:20
Speaker 2
You.

00:44:58:20 - 00:45:33:24
Speaker 1
Can relate to people and see them where they're at. But you can you also have the context of seeing men that have done other amazing things. And you have this, like Picasso painting of life experience, not necessarily all through your own lens, but you obviously have a large breadth there, but you have this connection to, you know, 100 or so or more other men in the, you know, over decade you've been coaching that you bring in this other breadth of experience and how you see the world.

00:45:33:24 - 00:46:10:20
Speaker 1
So at least for me, the being around someone that sees you and but also sees you and loves you, that brotherly love way towards like, hey man, I'm like, I see you and you're you're better than where you're at. You know, like I'm here, you're not necessarily better or worse, but like there are there is an opportunity where you can shine more and you're, you know, that Mary Mariana Williamson quote where it's like, we're we're meant to, I don't have the whole court in my head, but, like, we're we're we're meant to shine.

00:46:10:20 - 00:46:34:11
Speaker 1
We don't want to shrink our light. So other people, you know, we're worried about diminishing them because our light is shining so bright. So I think that that, I mean, it's one thing that I really appreciate about you as a coach is, is how use you see me. And also don't allow my own inner bullshit to convince myself.

00:46:34:11 - 00:47:17:21
Speaker 1
And that's the imposter syndrome, of course, but just kind of through my own lens. You don't allow having a coach doesn't allow me to, like, hide behind my bullshit imposter syndrome of, like, oh, I'm just this, or I'm just that, or I'm just whatever. And having someone who's has that life experience, both through what you've lived and, you know, living vicariously through your your clients, too, it lends a really fantastic mirror or at least sounding board to show up as myself, but also knowing that I have someone that sees potential that I probably don't even see right.

00:47:17:21 - 00:47:30:06
Speaker 1
And helping me accelerate through that potential. And what I thought was potential was success, but it actually wasn't what I needed. It was self-worth. Right?

00:47:30:06 - 00:47:31:04
Speaker 2
And yeah.

00:47:31:07 - 00:47:46:05
Speaker 1
My my ability to, you know, love myself at a level that I've never loved myself before. And having that sounding board and figuring that out along the way.

00:47:46:07 - 00:48:28:06
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And it's funny because when I think about, what that is, that, that I, I do like when you first started talking, you were like, you know, you've worked with hundreds and hundreds. You said like 100, but like, dude, it's been like hundreds, like 13 years. It's been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds like I sometimes go through my, you know, lists of guys that I've worked with, I, I can't believe how many people I've worked with in depth like to the level, like we're having one conversation that's already kind of deep.

00:48:28:08 - 00:48:55:13
Speaker 2
Imagine, you know, an hour a day for, you know, working with a guy for 3 to 5 years, like, that's a lot. And then multiply that by literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. And there's this, gift that I have. I have this weird sort of autistic. And I'm not saying, like, I'm not using autistic incorrectly. I'm saying I'm, I'm I'm on the spectrum.

00:48:55:13 - 00:49:21:20
Speaker 2
I'm autistic and ADHD. I'm not to brag or nothing, but, you know, I'm wired differently. And so one of my freak superpowers is this memory. I remember things about people as though they just said it yesterday. And my clients are always like, you know, long before ChatGPT or I notetaking or anything. They're like, how the.

00:49:22:01 - 00:49:22:08
Speaker 3
Fuck.

00:49:22:08 - 00:49:55:16
Speaker 2
Did you remember that specific detail? I shared that with you, like three years ago. I'm just like, I have a head for this. So how is that useful? It's useful because if you're someone who sees patterns, it really helps you in the moment. When you're looking at a new guy, at a new client to just let the there's this thing that happens where it's like, it's almost like cicadas going like, like chirping in my head.

00:49:55:18 - 00:50:24:20
Speaker 2
It's in for me. It's it's it's a picture trying to put itself together. And there's an intuitive aspect to it where I have to let it kind of form, but be careful not to project, because transference is the thing. In counseling. And if you're not careful, you will project your own personal stuff onto someone else. Like I see a tall guy and I say, oh, I bet you, you know, got, you know, picked on.

00:50:24:20 - 00:50:27:16
Speaker 2
And he's like, no, actually, that never happened.

00:50:27:18 - 00:50:30:04
Speaker 3
You know, or something. So.

00:50:30:06 - 00:50:59:04
Speaker 2
So in coaching, you want to be careful not to project and to predict, but you pay attention to the voices. And so when I work with a guy who's like a new guy, the voice is, so to speak, will just be this rush of information and it'll kind of almost like one of the stereo gram images when you kind of where you kind of have to relax your eyes and then cross them a little bit or whatever, until the image finally comes into shape.

00:50:59:04 - 00:51:40:17
Speaker 2
It's like that. But when you know, you know, it is undeniable. And so there are these moments in working with guys where suddenly they'll say, the thing that makes me go, and I'll say something like, have you ever considered public speaking? And they're like, it's so funny that you say that. I've always had this simultaneous interest in and debilitating fear of public speaking, and so we'll use that as the thing that is there kind of fear factor moment to sort of face it and take a risk.

00:51:40:17 - 00:52:18:15
Speaker 2
And from that risk gain self-confidence. Right. And that is the kind of, encouragement that a good coach offers. When you first started saying, hey, I noticed that you have this ability, one of the things I was thinking is there are some really good talent scouts out there, like, I think about the people who are responsible for finding talent for shows like The Voice, which, by the way, is like, I, I, I used to watch the hell out of that show, because I love the coaching.

00:52:18:17 - 00:52:47:01
Speaker 2
Like, I'm a coach, I like coaching, and, it's so, or casting directors like casting, like a really good casting director can just read everybody, like, just immediately go, oh no, no, no, no, no, you would be good for this role because let me know as a director, they'll kind of bring it out of you, like, let me see your anger side.

00:52:47:03 - 00:53:15:19
Speaker 2
And you're like, I'm not really an angry person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me see it anyway. And they'll push your buttons and all of a sudden they'll, you'll tap into some emotion you didn't even know were there. And they're like that. You're the one for the part. So part of what I do as a coach is exactly that, that I sort of intuitively slash like, intellectually truthful out people's, people's hidden talents.

00:53:15:21 - 00:53:47:16
Speaker 2
And once I find them, they're like, they're like, oh, I could never dot dot, dot. Case in point, you and I met on your, podcast, resisting Better. And later you reached out to me and said, I'm thinking about it. And after consideration, I've been low key, kind of, you know, interviewing coaches. And you're the guy I want to go with.

00:53:47:18 - 00:54:25:21
Speaker 2
I say, great, you and I start working together, I pretty immediately say, hey, I think you should be on my admin team. You're a marketer. You have a you're now you're a serious bro. You're reliable. You can help me with my 28 year olds in my admin team into shape. Not really, but kind of. And every step of the way, you're measuring your right to be here by whether or not my line is going up like a hockey stick.

00:54:25:23 - 00:54:48:16
Speaker 2
And I think one of the most important things that has happened in your, time with man up life coaching is that here we are doing a podcast together. I very much regard you as a potential partner. In business. Not like in a gay way.

00:54:48:18 - 00:54:59:08
Speaker 3
And, but I like that shirt. But but you. But you look good in plaid, bro. Where does your.

00:54:59:08 - 00:55:02:11
Speaker 2
Brawny man ax, though?

00:55:02:13 - 00:55:03:16
Speaker 1
Hold on the get it.

00:55:03:18 - 00:55:14:10
Speaker 3
Wisconsin. Save that for the after party, but but I but real, real shit like I, I'm waiting for you to.

00:55:14:10 - 00:55:28:00
Speaker 2
Realize you're an alpha boss and take me on up life coaching to the promised land. You've had that experience with me. You've been along for the ride. I've been believing in you long.

00:55:28:00 - 00:55:34:01
Speaker 3
After you stopped believing in you. Because as a marketer, you said, I'm going to do X and we're going to get Y.

00:55:34:01 - 00:55:37:06
Speaker 2
That didn't happen. And you're like, what? I guess I failed.

00:55:37:06 - 00:55:38:15
Speaker 3
You took a by ball going home.

00:55:38:15 - 00:55:48:17
Speaker 2
And I said, nope, that is not what's happening. You are staying. You are not allowed to leave. And you were in fact going to run my business. And you're like, do I have to?

00:55:48:17 - 00:55:56:22
Speaker 3
And I'm like, yes, you know, well, shit. All right, I guess I live here now. So. So speaking of working.

00:55:56:22 - 00:56:04:17
Speaker 2
In an environment where we train men to be exceptional and where we don't apologize for a lead ism.

00:56:04:19 - 00:56:07:07
Speaker 3
How would you say that?

00:56:07:07 - 00:56:28:23
Speaker 2
Being in this environment has helped to change your mentality from shrinking poppy, who's not allowed to stand up tall to, you know what, we're doing the damn thing. And I am motivated by Dennis's combination of sort of David Goggins meets Robin Williams, Dead.

00:56:28:23 - 00:56:31:09
Speaker 3
Poets Society, you know.

00:56:31:11 - 00:56:48:07
Speaker 2
Energy. How how are you embracing the idea that not only am I refusing to be hateful toward the concept of a lead ism, fuck it. I'm embracing the lead ism. Yes, I am Ali. I own that.

00:56:48:09 - 00:57:13:23
Speaker 1
I think for me it's been the combination of figuring out, like. Like I mentioned before, the how to love, how to love me as I am, right? I like knowing, knowing what my value is. Knowing what, like, you know, kind of building up that brag book of like, okay, well, yeah, maybe the numbers aren't there, but I can stand in my value and stand in my values.

00:57:13:23 - 00:57:47:12
Speaker 1
Of what? What I've brought to the table. Right? And knowing that I'm showing up in something that means a lot to me. It's obviously one of the main missions of the podcast was to, really impact men's mental health. And it had some pretty steep goals attached to that in being able to and now in more in this role, just being able to impact men and, you know, rub shoulders with men that hourly.

00:57:47:14 - 00:58:11:08
Speaker 1
Right. And and have different completely different viewpoints on the world and knowing that, you know, I can I can I can stand with them right. I can I can stand in my way. I can stand on who I am as a man and knowing that I'm good as I am. Right. And I've done some pretty cool shit in my life.

00:58:11:08 - 00:58:31:10
Speaker 1
But I also have a lot of room and opportunity to grow and grow my own craft. I'm working through it and it's pretty amazing. As you look across the table, it's like, oh, everybody's got their own, you know, shadows, versions of themselves. They're trying to hide underneath, you know, in corners and stuff.

00:58:31:12 - 00:58:34:12
Speaker 3
That's real. And I'll tell you what, put me in.

00:58:34:12 - 00:58:50:22
Speaker 2
The room with the 1% of the 1%, and I will still show you someone who shits and farts. Dude, there is. You're not that elite. You know what I'm saying?

00:58:50:22 - 00:59:05:04
Speaker 3
Yeah. Poop jokes. So, yes. Pull my multibillion dollar figure. So. So. So the point is.

00:59:05:06 - 00:59:42:22
Speaker 2
To land this thing. When I say that I defend elitism, I mean that I defend your right to embrace being more than average, to strive for being exceptional and whatever that is a you deserve it. But be. Don't let it define you. Let self-worth define you, and let your pursuit of excellence be your your signature. Right. Your defining character.

00:59:42:24 - 00:59:57:21
Speaker 2
I want people to know when I die. Boy. Working for Denis. I'll tell you what. This is a guy who did not let any punctuation errors slide into any brand coffee. This is a.

00:59:57:21 - 01:00:00:07
Speaker 3
Guy who, if you tried to feed his.

01:00:00:09 - 01:00:08:05
Speaker 2
You know, his audience, I slop there is going to be some very passionate words in our private discord server.

01:00:08:07 - 01:00:09:02
Speaker 3
Because this.

01:00:09:02 - 01:00:35:01
Speaker 2
Dude is not about average. This dude is about excellence. And so if you're a guy and you're listening to this and you are, someone who considers himself elite in some way, welcome, fam. Come holla. We're kind of cool too. If you're someone who thinks The Elite are those guys, here's what you're doing. You're hating on them.

01:00:35:01 - 01:01:07:03
Speaker 2
And in doing so, you are your own barrier to entry. Don't hate them like, don't worry about them. Do you? Don't worry about what they have. Worry about who you are. And as you develop yourself, you, will come into a state of, I would say, peace, grace, authority and whatever the hell you guys think you mean when you say Alpha?

01:01:07:04 - 01:01:20:11
Speaker 2
Trust me, that'll be riding along side with you to you'll you'll be you'll be spiritually alpha. Okay, on that note, play us off stage, Andrew.

01:01:20:13 - 01:01:44:16
Speaker 1
Amen. We've gotten to this point in the podcast, so I actually got I got obviously got a lot of value out of the conversation we had today. So got to ask you something. I want you to go on wherever you're listening to this, fill out a review, show some love so some other men can find it. And, continue to get the value and the blessings that, they deserve in their life.

01:01:44:17 - 01:01:46:24
Speaker 1
So we appreciate you.

01:01:47:01 - 01:01:50:23
Speaker 3
Did you guys hear his call to action? Do the thing he said.

01:01:50:23 - 01:01:56:02
Speaker 2
Come on. Make him feel like he's an elite communicator. Push the button and.

01:01:56:02 - 01:01:57:03
Speaker 3
Do the follow.

01:01:57:03 - 01:02:05:10
Speaker 2
Crap or whatever you're supposed to do. Social media. Yeah. All right. On that note, guys love you. And we'll see you on the next one.