Ep 5: The Mask in Masculinity: Why Playing a Character Isn't the Problem

You follow the rules. You've learned what's appropriate. You show up as the guy everyone expects you to be. So why does it feel like you're hiding? Why can't you just be yourself without worrying what people think? And why does the thought of being vulnerable make you want to run in the opposite direction?

Most men spend their lives asking "what's appropriate?" instead of "what's authentic?" You've learned to be a chameleon—adjusting your personality for the boardroom, the bedroom, your buddies, your family. You've mastered the art of social approval. But here's the brutal truth: The mask you're wearing has less to do with convincing people you're something you're not, and more to do with hiding who you're afraid you really are.

In this episode, Dennis Procopio (The Bro Coach®) sits down with Andrew Bontz, COO of Man-UP! Life Coaching, for a raw conversation about authenticity, fear, and why every man wears masks—and why that's not actually the problem.

You'll learn:

• Why men hide behind masks—and it's not what you think (it's about fear, not performance)
• The "nice guy mask" and why seeking social approval keeps you stuck in character
• Dennis's story of going to 24 schools and becoming a master chameleon (and what it cost him)
• Why creative men are terrified of improvisation—and how that fear bleeds into everything
• Andrew's salsa dancing breakthrough: from sitting on the sidelines to getting on the floor (and what made him finally do it)
• The critical difference between playing a character and being so committed you forget what you really are
• Why masks aren't the enemy—taking them too seriously is
• The code that keeps you grounded: love, service, and brotherhood (the glue that matters)
• How to recognize you're wearing a mask without making it your entire identity

This episode is for you if:

• You feel like you're always performing and never quite being yourself
• You're terrified of looking stupid, so you play it safe instead of being creative
• You've mastered what's "appropriate" but lost touch with what's authentic
• You watch from the sidelines instead of getting in the game (literally or metaphorically)
• You're ready to understand that being a man means choosing your character—not being trapped by it

Whether you're a guy who's forgotten who he is underneath all the roles he plays, a man tired of seeking approval, or someone ready to stop taking his masks so seriously and start living with intention, this episode offers the blueprint for authentic masculinity.

Because at the end of the day, you're allowed to play whatever character you choose—but you're not obligated to stay in costume forever.

Not red-pill. Not therapy. Just the evolved man's blueprint for authenticity, vulnerability, and becoming the man beneath the mask.

Subscribe and join the conversation at brocoach.com

Want to dive deeper? If you're ready to optimize every area of your life, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy session at www.manuplifecoaching.com/application

Transcript

Most men want more. More clarity. More respect. More control over their lives. But few know how to get it. Welcome to the Bro Coach podcast with Dennis Procopio, the founder of Man Up Life Coaching and the man behind thousands of Transform Lives. Not Red pill, not therapy. Just the evolved man's blueprint for strength, presence and purpose.

00:00:23:05 - 00:00:46:01
Unknown
Welcome to another episode of the Bro Coach podcast. I am Andrew Barnes, and I'm here with the bro coach himself, Dennis Procopio. Hey what's up man? How's it going today? It's going good dude. It's a Saturday and I am ready to rip open this topic. What are we talking about today, Andrew, what do you got for me?

00:00:46:03 - 00:01:13:07
Unknown
Well, I want to continue a dialog that we had a couple of weeks ago, but didn't get a chance to put a bookend on it and talk about the masks men wear and talking about topics that really intrigued me was like the the nice guy mask that we are kind of raised with, and the other kind of masks that we navigate as men where we kind of like hide behind.

00:01:13:09 - 00:01:36:20
Unknown
Right? Okay. Yeah, that's a mask. And in a nutshell, I mean, the when guys, go out into the world, I think we have this tendency to ask what's appropriate because we don't want to, be extra, or be there or stand out unless we do. And that's a different kind of guy. That's a very performative, extravagant kind of guy.

00:01:36:20 - 00:01:57:06
Unknown
But the average guy just wants to learn the rules. Follow the rules. Get the social approval, get the the stuff. And there are different uniforms that we wear for different jobs. And that's where I think the whole mask idea comes from. Right?

00:01:57:12 - 00:02:30:23
Unknown
So how if a guy maybe is wearing a mask and doesn't necessarily realize he is like, how do you how would you help him kind of get through that process? Let's flip the script on this. If you don't wear a mask, then basically you're being your most authentic self. Yeah, yeah. So it sounds to me like what you're really asking is less about what affectations should you use in a business interview versus what voice should you use when you talk with grandma?

00:02:31:00 - 00:03:10:13
Unknown
And it's less about sort of, you know, social convention and it's more about how do I being my authentic self rather than, some alternative, you know? So I guess we have to ask ourselves. Does a guy know what his authentic self is? And is there some sort of deep fear of vulnerability that would keep him from being his authentic self?

00:03:10:13 - 00:03:49:24
Unknown
Now, you probably know about me at this point that, I went to like 24 different schools as a kid and when you go to different schools, this was like in the 70s and 80s and 90s. All right. I'm 54 at the time of this recording, and having been born in 1970, my school experience was all over this country through the 70s, 80s and 90s where we didn't have the internet, until much later.

00:03:49:24 - 00:04:18:17
Unknown
And so when you went to different places in America, you had drastically different cultures. We have this global culture that we have now. So one of the things that I would have to quickly learn how to do is be a chameleon and figure out how everybody was acting and sort of be it in my authentic self, was kind of a little weirdo, if I can be honest with you.

00:04:18:17 - 00:04:54:01
Unknown
I was I was an artistic, smart, geeky little, like the last thing in the world I ever thought I'd do is be civil leader of men. Calling himself the Perot coach, I was like, I, you know, I, I, I, I really would have expected myself to be some super wacky, creative alt culture freak. And so I've been looking, peeling the onion of Dennis Procopio, looking for the authenticity my whole life.

00:04:54:03 - 00:05:18:24
Unknown
And that's a that has a big part to do with, what we do here in, in, coaching. And it started as an art teacher. If you were in an art class right now, you. Andrew, do you have any artistic, abilities? I mean, I have abilities that I would not say. They're very good, right? Right. Like, I could I could draw a killer stick, man.

00:05:18:24 - 00:05:41:23
Unknown
Right? Yeah. So let's say I got a bunch of pros together in an art class and said. But actually, with women in it, because now that ups the ante. Because now there's, you know, the guy who draws well, the girls are going to go, oh my God, you just so well, I don't know why I did that voice.

00:05:42:00 - 00:06:15:20
Unknown
Oh my God, you draw so well. There we go. Equal representation. Maureen, I got you. But anyway, you're going to have you're going to have guys who are like, you know, we're competitive, right? So the first thing the guy comes in, he's going to be sweating. The dude who draws best, which is going to make him feel like I'm not good enough, which is going to make him be embarrassed or ashamed to try to just play because.

00:06:15:22 - 00:06:35:01
Unknown
Because when we're kids, we're braver than we are when we're adults. Because as kids we play and somebody says, yeah, that sucks. Don't quit your day job and you never draw again to kicking my ball. I'm going to come. That's it. Try. Don't screw that. I'm out. Let me go. Make a lot of money. Become a corporate leader.

00:06:35:01 - 00:06:59:02
Unknown
And everybody can kiss my ass because I sign your paycheck. Kind of like a sort of a Hitler story there, really, if you think about it, guys, you know, I'm Jewish. I'm allowed to say that, you know, got rejected at Vienna, got his feelings hurt, and then said, okay, well, plan B, so we see that a lot.

00:06:59:04 - 00:07:43:04
Unknown
We see guys who want to create success in their lives. Keyword create. But they're afraid of being creative because being creative involves improvization and improvization means risking looking stupid. And so the mask that a lot of men will wear will have less to do with, less to do with trying to convince people that you're something you're not, and more to do with trying to hide who you're afraid you really are.

00:07:43:06 - 00:08:05:23
Unknown
Hear me on that? Right. So since this is a radio program, I'll give you some time to ponder and I'll just fill the air space because all of a sudden, Andrew, just like, looks up at the ceiling. It says it's deep. Coach. But like you, you're what are you, like, 65, right? Yeah. What do you weigh to 60?

00:08:06:00 - 00:08:39:07
Unknown
What's your body fat? 22%. So you're like a big bald, bearded giant, right. Depending on what room I'm sitting in, I mean, but for the most part, right. So what was it that made you say, I'm going to go take salsa dancing classes? I had a good coach. Yeah. You did. Honestly, that the thing that the reason why I did it, is because it's something that I was always scared of doing, and.

00:08:39:09 - 00:09:05:11
Unknown
Well, one you it was part of the prescriptive process of of getting out of my own analytical head. But the real reason why I, you know, that was kind of the motivation or like the push off the ledge. But I remember most in most environments when it comes to dancing, I was always the guy sitting on the sidelines and watching other people dance.

00:09:05:13 - 00:09:51:16
Unknown
And I remember my mom put together this video montage of all of my high school memories, and the song was I Hope You Dance. I forget who sings it, but. And it just resonated with me. And, you know, most of my life I watch other people dance and not. And I'd let fear prevent me from getting out and dancing and just not necessarily caring what other people thought or, you know, hiding behind the fact that, like, oh, I just don't know how or I'm not good at it.

00:09:51:18 - 00:10:06:10
Unknown
Right. And yeah, so that was kind of like the and I was single at the time and I wanted to meet women, so and women like to dance. So there was that motivation to.

00:10:06:12 - 00:10:39:01
Unknown
I get it. And I think dancing is actually a fantastic I think it's a perfect metaphor for taking risks that arguably challenge historic, traditional, you know, masculinity roles. And they're cultural. By the way, I didn't want to interrupt you, but the, I think the song you're thinking of was originally Lee Ann Womack, but then later Chris Stapleton covered it.

00:10:39:03 - 00:11:08:18
Unknown
Which is also interesting. Right? Kind of like when Tracy Tracy Chapman, I was in my 20s when she came out with Fast Car, and then the cover became sort of a tribute again with a male singer, you know, embracing a song that was originally written by a woman. There's this there's this alarm that goes off for a dude.

00:11:08:20 - 00:11:44:11
Unknown
Like, am I doing something feminine? Am I doing something that makes me look gay? Or, I mean, assuming you're straight, like, if you're gay, then whatever, right? But, you know, if you're if you're afraid of seeming like an masculine and gay or, or whatever, then you know, either you're somebody like myself who comes from an Italian, you know, I, you know, Italians are not scared to cook.

00:11:44:11 - 00:12:22:23
Unknown
We're not scared to dance. We're not scared to, you know, hug our male relatives, kiss them on the cheek. Very European. You know, you have these cultures, Latin cultures, you know, the Latino culture. Brazil. You know, the black men, you know, they're like, dude, dancing is okay. I can I can pull that off. Like, I can pull anybody on the dance floor because I got moves like, you know, like usher and, you know, and, there's other guys who wear these, like, blue collar, you know, Midwest pros who, like, I don't dance, you know, what?

00:12:22:23 - 00:13:01:07
Unknown
Do I look like a homo? And then there's like. And then there's the subculture. You know, that's like, real gangsters don't dance. They lean with it, you know? And so dancing is one of those places where you ask yourself, can I let myself move to the music, but still and be expressive and be fun and attract women without, like, looking like, little fruit wiggling his butt all over the place like you want some, you know, and that's a head trip.

00:13:01:09 - 00:13:28:20
Unknown
That's a head trip. So. So how do you rectify that. Well I've got a, I've got a coach right now. My dude Steve who's an athlete, he's a brainiac. He's a real smart guy. I went to college for you know whatever learn had a white guy learn how to speak Mandarin. You know, we're high executive level, you know, and tech recruitment, whatever, that kind of thing.

00:13:28:22 - 00:13:49:24
Unknown
Started training BJJ at the time of this recording. He's either a purple belt or or by now he's probably made brown belt. And the first day he stepped into my office as a client, he said, I was like, so what do you do for a hobby? She's like, well, I have to say, you know, salsa dancing, like dance just changed my life.

00:13:50:01 - 00:14:16:21
Unknown
And I and I did. I was like, that was the last thing I expected to hear this dude say. Oh, yeah, dude, dad's changed my life. I'm like, look, a cowboy say that. It was just weird. Like, okay. Turns out he's a killer salsa dancer. He even has taught salsa dancing classes. My guys, I'm like, if you want to meet women, go to a salsa dance class.

00:14:16:21 - 00:14:50:19
Unknown
Boom. Done. So what does he, dude, who is afraid to take a salsa dancing class, asked to challenge in order to be able to do it for you? What did you have to challenge? What was the narrative that you had to confront? I think for me, it was not looking stupid, especially at six five. And also, you know, being 40 years old, where the being bad at something muscle, right.

00:14:50:19 - 00:15:14:05
Unknown
There's like a rep muscle or a weak muscle where if you're, you know, a lot of your ego is attached to being like, hey, I'm really good at all of these things, right? So addressing that and getting past the I'm going to suck at this at first. Right? And also the judgment of if I suck at this, they'll all laugh at me, right?

00:15:14:07 - 00:15:36:23
Unknown
Or they'll think I'm less than. Or though they won't think I am, you know, cool. Or they will quote me. Or they might. They won't be attracted to me because I am new, right? Or I, I look silly or I screw it it up and I kind of stuff like all of that narrative in your head that most of it is just a whole lot of bullshit.

00:15:36:23 - 00:16:04:24
Unknown
But it's certainly there. So so let's move down the line so the guys aren't like, all right, is this a Ted talk for like salsa dancing? So it's not. But, I'm telling you, if you're single and you want to meet women, best, fastest way in the world to do that is take a dancing class. I'm telling you, and I'm also telling you that I'm not a dancer.

00:16:05:01 - 00:16:23:04
Unknown
I remember I talked about Steve, right? He's like, hey, bro, I'm teaching the salsa dancing class, thanks to your, you know, your coaching. And I'm like, okay, let me bring my drums down and I'll drum for you. I like to drum and I'm good at it. So that's my way of participating in the music. And that's a way of being authentic, not a dancer.

00:16:23:04 - 00:17:01:21
Unknown
It's just not my thing. But that environment is a good environment to kind of let your guard down. And we have a tendency to judge and ridicule when we feel potentially threatened. Right. You see this all the time. Haters hate because their judgment of other people is an extension of their self judgment and a way to liberate them is to get them to stop judging themselves and to try the thing that they're scared to do because they're scared to look stupid, they're scared to look unmanly.

00:17:01:23 - 00:17:29:10
Unknown
They're scared to be ridiculed, that they don't want to be the person who drops a deuce in the at the pool party, you know, like like that's the moment that terrifies everyone. Because somewhere deep inside, as men, we're afraid of social, ostracization. We want to be. We're we're pack dogs, dude. You know, we we respect the alpha.

00:17:29:10 - 00:17:58:12
Unknown
We respect the line up. And the last thing we want to be is like the the the queer bird over there go the category of us, you know? Like, okay. There, chief, why don't you just sit this one out? Men are doing stuff, right, so masks. What are you. If you remove all of your masks? Your authentic self.

00:17:58:14 - 00:18:50:01
Unknown
I mean, what is that? It's like, to me, it's like the unreserved version of you. That is. Is has no fear of judgment, right? Or you're just doing you and not trying to accomplish, not trying to sway, not trying to transact or attract the just doing what feels right, okay? And what feels good. Right? So so there's a there's a scary line there.

00:18:50:03 - 00:19:15:05
Unknown
Right? There is a scary line there. If a dude told himself, I am going to allow myself to do what feels right and what feels good, and you're walking down the street and you see a chick in a see through sun dress in in an anarchist environment where there are no consequences other than just your own conscience and social shame.

00:19:15:07 - 00:19:51:22
Unknown
Doing what's right and what feels good could get you in trouble. I'm really. I'm not trying to make it weird, but I'm saying if this is a show for guys and we're being honest, you know what I mean? Women have historically chosen the bare right because there's a difference between a guy, holding back his you now his predatory primitive, you know, conquer the female and make babies with her.

00:19:51:24 - 00:20:17:03
Unknown
You know, because I'm a caveman sort of drive. And being in a room with a gay dude is like, oh, don't worry, you're totally safe. The face. Right? There's a different vibe, right? And so that's where some of that masking comes from. It comes from saying, I don't trust myself to follow every feeling. And that's why we say that a man needs a code.

00:20:17:05 - 00:20:28:08
Unknown
You have to have a code, and you have to decide for yourself what's appropriate and what's inappropriate. And you have to exercise discipline.

00:20:28:08 - 00:20:51:03
Unknown
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00:20:51:03 - 00:20:58:05
Unknown
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00:20:58:05 - 00:21:24:24
Unknown
Because not everything that you feel is something that it's appropriate to, react to. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's having that core set of, you know, values or mission or purpose, the code, whatever you want to call it, and having that filter.

00:21:25:00 - 00:21:57:20
Unknown
Right, like do I is this is just a feeling or is it something I need to act on? I think that's a bit of the challenging part towards like the when you bring in intuition, right where you talk a lot about trusting your intuition and differentiating that from like feelings and navigating that. And that's something that's been really challenging for me and been part of the process of working with you as a coach is navigating like where you're making decisions from.

00:21:57:20 - 00:22:31:00
Unknown
Are you making it from like the neck up or, you know, down in your gut and figuring out how to go about that process? And you know that trusting your intuition versus leaning into feelings, right. And navigating those moments of you're in your head too much like, for me, I'm very analytical, a logical right brain, kind of more scientist minded.

00:22:31:02 - 00:23:03:19
Unknown
Versus leaning into your intuition and that creative mask. Right. Like that creative version of me, that play version of me that I mean, I remember, even remember when I learned West Coast swing dancing in the beginning. It's all, you know, I'm learning the steps in the cadence in in what to do when. And in my brain. It's like left arm here, step here, move left foot here, like here.

00:23:03:21 - 00:23:51:03
Unknown
It's all sequencing. And then eventually I got past that. And after months and months of just practice, I was getting comments from women that are like, wow, I love the way you move and the way you flow. And it was just like this release of creative. It's like a release of the control, right? So. And leaning into that authentic version of me, that wasn't as concerned about looking cool, but was more concerned about.

00:23:51:05 - 00:24:36:01
Unknown
The moment and just leaning into what felt what I guess felt right. But yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting. So if I'm a guy listening to this, I'm probably saying, wow, I relate to a lot of this. I don't necessarily see structure in this conversation, but I get how I get what they're doing. These two guys are just kind of starting with masks and exploring the male experience, and how we have a tendency to feel the feeling and then weigh it against a thought.

00:24:36:03 - 00:24:50:14
Unknown
And the analysis piece is wanting to make sure that we don't do something inappropriate, because consequences can be dire. I mean.

00:24:50:16 - 00:25:29:04
Unknown
Drinking is a perfect example. If you know me, you know that I am sober going on. I think 18 years. Let's see, 2000 and April of 2007, in New Orleans, post Hurricane Katrina, I finally decided it was time to stop drinking. Here's why I drank. I drank because it was the only time I could relieve the pressure of feeling incredibly conspicuous, feeling judged by everyone.

00:25:29:06 - 00:26:02:16
Unknown
Social anxiety, fear of failure, determination to succeed. So tense in every situation that I was in, like practically vibrating people. All I ever heard from people was how intense I was. I stared at people. Unblinkingly I had this David Goggins winner mentality where, you know, getting a 99 on a test was not an option. I needed to get 100.

00:26:02:18 - 00:26:35:17
Unknown
And it was exhausting. And so when I drank, I let all of my inhibitions down and I allowed myself or not, I allowed myself like I, you know, I, I got so drunk that I basically put the security guard to sleep and whoever was monitoring me and making sure I did do dumb shit, like I just, I got them so drunk they passed out.

00:26:35:17 - 00:26:59:11
Unknown
That's like, cat's out of the bag. Let's go. If it feels good, do it. And then I'd wake up the next morning and I don't know what was worse. The stuff I remembered that I did, or the stuff that I didn't even remember that I had, did and had to find out through, you know, texts and stuff like, bro, you you blew the spot.

00:26:59:13 - 00:27:25:06
Unknown
You're you're not welcome in that bar anymore. You owe a few people an apology. Do you remember cutting a guy's hat with a razor blade? What? Yeah. You remember breaking a wine glass? No. And, like, threatening somebody with it. What? Like. But those were things that felt good to do in the time I was being my authentic self.

00:27:25:08 - 00:28:13:22
Unknown
So, took the mask all the way off on that one. So, what's the problem there? The problem there is that I had repressed a lot of. I felt trapped, I was living, I was living in jail. I was not allowing myself to. I was being in the commentator all day long, and I was not allowing myself to draw boundaries, to say, I don't necessarily agree with you, to take a chance and be wrong and own it without being too proud to take criticism.

00:28:13:24 - 00:28:47:17
Unknown
I was just yes, yes yes yes sure. Yes yes. Constantly adjusting, constantly, self-correcting. Being a people pleaser while simultaneously being a very, you know, competitive and sneaky person always looking for an advantage. And when I finally drank, it was like, I'm going to tell you how I really feel about, you know, that, you know, you're you're attractive and I'm going to put my hands all over you because because I'm following my authentic blah, blah, blah.

00:28:47:19 - 00:29:03:11
Unknown
So in the beginning of this piece, I said, A man needs a code. I think it's important to have a code. A code says.

00:29:03:13 - 00:29:27:13
Unknown
Things like, I feel like I should probably treat other people the way I would want to be treated. Now, if you're Christian, you get a lot of your code comes from from the Bible. If you're Jewish, a lot of your code comes from the Talmud of the Torah. If you're Islamic, a lot of your code comes from the Koran.

00:29:27:15 - 00:30:03:07
Unknown
If you're spiritual but not religious, where does your code come from? You kind of have to make your code, and your code should actually be based less on how does it make me feel and more on what's appropriate and what's inappropriate. Right. Is that wearing a mask or is that just demonstrating demonstrating self-governance. Because the difference between liberty and freedom is freedom is you're allowed to do anything you want.

00:30:03:09 - 00:30:31:20
Unknown
Liberty as you're at liberty to do the things that you want as long as dot. So it sounds like we've, we've talked about two different spectrums here. Right. There's the if you go if you take this narrative and be like, well, I'm just being my authentic self. So therefore I do whatever I want. Like that's you can take that way too far and you can basically become a psychopath, right?

00:30:31:20 - 00:31:13:18
Unknown
Where you're just just allowing, you know, doing whatever you want and life's anarchy. Right. You're like more specifically, more specific, a sociopath. So so you're doing yeah. You're doing something that serves you with no empathy for how your actions might affect another person. That's a critical word, empathy. Right. And then the other side, where I think most men are probably too close to where they have so much rigidity to their life that they don't let their authentic self out of the closet.

00:31:13:20 - 00:31:53:09
Unknown
Right. Or and I don't think we're we're probably closer to that side than the sociopath side of things in today's modern masculinity world, where it's like we're so rigid in our ways where we don't allow or allow that, you know, the fun, joyful, creative or just honest or just honest honest because your, your, your brain went to, you know, like being fun, being creative and allowing yourself to be happy.

00:31:53:09 - 00:32:31:03
Unknown
My brain went to, let's face it, when I was a kid, I learned that, you know, boys were made of snakes and snails and puppy dog tails, and girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice it right off the bat, I accepted that men are like women. Are these perfect princesses that we have to accommodate? I have to take my jacket off and put it in like mud so that she doesn't get her frickin feet dirty.

00:32:31:05 - 00:33:08:09
Unknown
Or carry her across the water, but not in a gross way, because we want her to choose me and not the bear. Like, there's so much that goes into understanding a healthy masculinity in this culture. And I think women and children have been victimized so long by abuse of. Men and power who are like, screw it.

00:33:08:09 - 00:33:41:13
Unknown
If I feel like doing it, I'm going to do it. You know? I mean. Look at somebody who has money for candy, right? Like Tiger Woods, right? The whole Epstein thing, the conversation where the argument is the reason you don't do it is because you can't get away with it, not because you actually have any, you know.

00:33:41:15 - 00:34:16:05
Unknown
Upstanding, moral or ethical character. Right. On a purge day, if you 100% could get away with anything, you want it. How many people? Would say, I'm not going to do anything different because I'm just adherent to my values, right? I think a small percentage of our population, some people would say home for fear of getting, you know, railroaded by the, you know, roving flocks of marauders.

00:34:16:07 - 00:34:29:00
Unknown
And they'd stay home hiding, not because they didn't want to do the stuff, but because they were afraid of being on the ugly side of of of purge Day. Some people would go out and be like, I am going to loot,

00:34:29:00 - 00:34:33:14
Unknown
I am going to pillage, I am going to do, oh, there's going to be mayhem.

00:34:33:16 - 00:34:55:01
Unknown
I've been waiting all year for this, right? Screw Thanksgiving, screw Christmas. This is my favorite holiday where I really get to do whatever I want with no consequences. But what percentage of the population would say, nah, I'm just going to stay home because I'm not a dick, or I'll go out and help people because I'm not a dick.

00:34:55:03 - 00:35:22:09
Unknown
Right? So what does that mean, being not a dick? What that means we're back is having an appropriate moral and ethical code. I'm thinking of two people right now, and I've always said I would love to coach these guys. I'm not there yet. I'm not. I mean, I'm even though I've been doing this for 13 years, even though I have 25,000 hours in this, even though I have a hero's backstory, which qualifies me.

00:35:22:09 - 00:35:42:19
Unknown
I'm just not there yet. But I would love to work with Donald Trump, and I would love to work with Kanye. These are two people who are so easy to hate. And what they have in common is they are 100% authentic.

00:35:42:21 - 00:36:07:21
Unknown
Like for real and you know, I don't want to make it political. I'll just go ahead and say, for the record, if I were, if I were to pick a party, it would be libertarian. I have a little I'm concerned about the, the two party system, but I'm not talking about Donald Trump, the politician, President Trump.

00:36:07:21 - 00:36:44:12
Unknown
I'm not talking about time. Yeah. Like in, you know, the context of his anti-Semitic statements specifically or any of that, and just talking about guys, just dudes who have allowed themselves to rip the mask all the way off and be completely authentic. You'll notice that the people who like them like them for that reason, they're honest. And I mean, there's something admirable about that.

00:36:44:14 - 00:37:22:11
Unknown
Unfortunately, as you said, there's also an argument that there is some sociopathy. There. That, you know, becomes problematic if you're, let's say, Jewish and Kanye is just dropped N-word Heil Hitler. Like, hey, I appreciate your authenticity, but you've got me a little scared now. But at least you know where you stand. So what's the what's the real question here?

00:37:22:11 - 00:37:55:06
Unknown
The real question here is. Not only how can I be my authentic self, but how can I be my authentic self while adhering to a code of appropriateness that I have designed and had verified by other men? Like, yeah, you've you're there's a lot of overlap between your code. Mine. I think you're doing the right thing. Here's here's a classic example hitting women.

00:37:55:08 - 00:38:33:05
Unknown
Is it ever okay to put your hands on a woman? I'll ask you. You're a father of three girls, is it? I'm not saying you like kids are not. I'm just saying in general, do you see a situation where it's appropriate to hit a woman? 99% of the time, no, but, I mean, if she's coming at me and my family with a knife, then.

00:38:33:07 - 00:39:02:18
Unknown
Yes. I gotta do what you gotta do, right? I, I got from being 100% honest, like, Is it. No. I mean, if it's if it's because you can't control your own anger and your only way of expressing your anger is by hitting somebody else, then absolutely not. You know, right out of self-defense or defense of my family, then that's very situational.

00:39:02:18 - 00:39:33:02
Unknown
But yeah. Right. Linda Rousey or Holly Holm, you know, you know, O'Hare or any of these famously, you know, tough women. You know, comes up to your table and spits in your face at the waffle House and you're like, well, this isn't cool. If that or dude.

00:39:33:04 - 00:40:02:12
Unknown
Like, literally just hocks a loogie right in the middle of your forehead. It you jump up and you wipe your forehead off. You jump up your families, they're and you're masculine. Protect, you know, provide and perform. Instincts would come out and you would probably if that were a dude who did that, you'd immediately grab that dude by the lapels, as it were, and be like, what the hell?

00:40:02:14 - 00:40:24:11
Unknown
And still, if you're a good dude, you'd be like, maybe this is a crazy person. Maybe he thinks I'm somebody else. Maybe there's an explanation. Please give me a reason not to hit you. But then if it if that person kept escalating, putting hands on you, do you had to do so again. What if it's Ronda Rousey and she does the same thing?

00:40:24:13 - 00:40:54:17
Unknown
She punches you so hard on your chin she almost knocks you out. Is it appropriate to put hands on her? In that case, I say yes. I don't say, oh, I can never hit a woman. I say, you know what? I think meritocracy is is is kind of how the game is played. And if you're, if you're capable of bullying me and I got to do what I gotta do, then I'm going to do what I gotta do.

00:40:54:19 - 00:41:27:02
Unknown
But like you said, 99, 99% of the time I would avoid any fight. But if it's a woman, I admit I would. I would really take a lot more than if it were a dude. Why do I ask that? Because I think establishing your code means working those things out ahead of time. Working those things out ahead of time.

00:41:27:04 - 00:41:31:10
Unknown
Once you just like you said about dance.

00:41:31:12 - 00:41:57:23
Unknown
You don't go into a salsa into a salsa plant class and just start jumping around like a hippie on Marley and say, I'm just being authentic in my head. No, in my in my appreciation, in the music. There's there there's rules to this. Then once you know the rules, once you have the rules down, then you can be fluid and authentic in how you operate within those guidelines.

00:41:57:23 - 00:42:17:13
Unknown
Jazz. Look at jazz like. Jazz still has rules. It can sound like, you know, in New Orleans, when I was a musician in New Orleans, you know, the joke was always jazz. I'm nothing but five motherfuckers playing five different songs at the same time.

00:42:17:15 - 00:42:51:04
Unknown
But it's a joke because it really isn't right. So every man needs a code. You need a rule set. That's the part where if you're learning an instrument, you gotta practice scales. That's the part where if you're, going to lift weights, you gotta learn proper form. That's the part where if you're hanging out in a, in a, you know, if you're traveling to a, an Islamic state, you have to understand.

00:42:51:04 - 00:43:24:20
Unknown
Yeah, you can't drink alcohol here or whatever. You have to know the rules. Who makes your rules? You make your rules. Who helps make your rules? Society. Once your rules, your code of ethics and morals are dialed in, then how can you be authentic without having to wear a mask? I'm going to land the plane in a very interesting way on this one.

00:43:24:22 - 00:43:51:08
Unknown
I believe. And I've learned this from coaching. I believe that when you truly remove your mask, what you become to the next human is a mirror. And in that mirror you reflect all of the best of their.

00:43:51:10 - 00:43:54:05
Unknown
Potential.

00:43:54:07 - 00:44:00:22
Unknown
And goodness.

00:44:00:24 - 00:44:21:11
Unknown
I work with probably you've seen my schedule. I work with a lot of dudes, man. Right, right. I'm working 60 hours a week, right? I'm doing one one hour session with dudes all over the world, you know, and how, like, ballers, like, you know, real guys, where the information that I'm.

00:44:21:13 - 00:44:53:03
Unknown
The protocols that I'm imparting are critical to their survival in corporate environments. And, you know, family situations. I've had coaches in training ask me how I can be my authentic self from session to session, while still being this sort of weird chameleon who can adapt so easily from one coaching session to another so that no. Two coaching session, Dennis's or the same.

00:44:53:05 - 00:45:31:21
Unknown
Like ChatGPT like training. And I when I'm in session with you. Andrew I'm. I'm a model trained on Andrew. When I'm in session with John or Bob or Bill or Fred, I'm trained on them. I'm a mirror. What is the best way to be a mirror? You tell me, how do you remember the mask? So that when the person interacts with you, they see a mirror, they see their face reflected in your face, and they see the best version of themselves, like mirror, mirror on the wall.

00:45:31:21 - 00:46:15:00
Unknown
How do you do that? Do you imagine? Like with the how I do it would be with with empathy and. Knowing who I am right and knowing what I stand for and put it being able to put that a lot of the things aside of like what I want, right? And then just showing up for them and just listening to what they're saying, what they're showing me, and.

00:46:15:02 - 00:46:38:10
Unknown
Being present. Empathy. What do you mean by empathy? What does that mean? I'm a dude. I'm listening to this. I'm like, what are these guys talking about? Empathy. What is that like? I have to poop. Is that what that means? Like, you have to poop, and I'm aware of it because I could tell, like, what is empathy like?

00:46:38:11 - 00:46:53:06
Unknown
Empathy is is the permission to or you understand what the other person is feeling and making space for it, or thinking.

00:46:53:08 - 00:47:15:17
Unknown
Doesn't just have to be feeling or thinking, right? You know the little Jeff of like Shrek kind of looking up and going, with the eyes. That's a male empathy, Jeff. It's is I know what you're thinking. Right.

00:47:15:19 - 00:47:29:06
Unknown
I'm going to go a little deeper on this one. Sorry guys, but I, I, I play to a, I play to a deep crowd.

00:47:29:08 - 00:48:01:16
Unknown
The epitome of empathy is being what you are when all of your affectations are removed. Because if you able to remove all of your affectations and be what's left, which is a very so like dude, how many men over the course of history have concern themselves with?

00:48:01:18 - 00:48:15:13
Unknown
Who am I and why am I identity? Who am I? How am I perceived in this world? How do I perceive myself? Is Dennis, Anthony, Procopio?

00:48:15:15 - 00:48:44:20
Unknown
Who who are who am I? Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who is this bald guy with the big crooked frickin Jewish Italian nose and teeth that aren't exactly paper white and freaking eyes that look somewhere between, like Stallone and Pacino? Who is this particular human? I'm looking at what makes him unique, what makes him special. And two identity leads to purpose.

00:48:44:22 - 00:49:25:07
Unknown
What am I here to do? What will my legacy have been? Why am I here? One of the most valuable things that men get from my coaching, Mr. Bro. Coach guy over here is recognizing that they're answering their questions in reverse. They're trying to figure out who they are so that that it can inform why they're here. If we strip away all of your affectations, which means if we strip away your you're you're trying to design an avatar.

00:49:25:07 - 00:50:20:03
Unknown
It starts when you're a toddler. It really picks up again when you're a teenager. And then by your adolescence, you've sort of crafted your style and your your, your worldly avatar. That's where the masks really start. Yeah. And by the time you're on your deathbed, you're realizing. It like or approaching your deathbed, your ripping masks off and you're trying to get down to your core essence because whatever's going the heaven or whatever your jam is or being recycled back into the quantum field, whatever that energy is, the force or the Holy Spirit or the tea or whatever you want to call it, whatever that gene say is that makes life alive and aware of itself.

00:50:20:05 - 00:51:03:23
Unknown
That you. And to make it even more problematic, that view is not singular. It's collective. And that's our show. No. But but no, really? No, really. So you have this collective energy that is a collective consciousness. That can move like birds and murmuration that can move as one. That's a big word. Murmuration Google it, but can move parts that can move together as one.

00:51:04:00 - 00:51:32:15
Unknown
And when each individual recognizes that its purpose is to be in service to that larger collective identity that we are, when we back up far enough, then we understand our purpose. Our purpose is primarily service to our larger identity, to the hive mind, as it were. If we want to simplify it, we're bros service to to men, to the fraternal order.

00:51:32:17 - 00:52:04:14
Unknown
That's what we're doing here right now on a Saturday, when I get paid for this, we're trying to save lives, and we're trying to help guys to feel understood. Right. We are in service to the ISM. That's the whatever it is in you, in me and in the guy listening right now that resonates at some level and says, I don't even know, like why I do this, but it feels right.

00:52:04:16 - 00:52:29:02
Unknown
And if I check my code, it doesn't break any laws. So we're good. Certain words I'm apparently not allowed to use. And my bro, easy with the Hitler stuff. But but I'll bend the rules a little bit. Being my authentic self, I don't give a shit. Cancel me fuckers. But the love is there. The love is there.

00:52:29:02 - 00:53:03:11
Unknown
Anybody who knows the bro coach knows that the bro stands for brother. And then I'm from Philly and it's the City of Brotherly Love. So what is authenticity? Authenticity is love for your brother or sister and love for. The big you that informs your identity. It's my identity. I'm bro. Coach. Apparently, I didn't start out this way. And then as a kid, I didn't say, I don't want to be spider man.

00:53:03:11 - 00:53:39:01
Unknown
I want to be a punk coach. I didn't know. So what you're seeing here is I'm still wearing a mask. I'm wearing the mask of Dennis the bro coach, for that matter. I'm wearing a mask of Dennis. But under all of that. Is that indescribable? That is the reason that we are here to begin with. And it's our responsibility to live in service to the greater good.

00:53:39:03 - 00:53:51:12
Unknown
I know that's heavy and philosophical, but if you're my client, you're probably having philosophical. So tell me, how does that fit for you?

00:53:51:14 - 00:53:57:18
Unknown
I whistled the jeopardy song or something while you're thinking.

00:53:57:20 - 00:54:19:19
Unknown
It's a lot. That's what she said, right? It's it's. I'm so sorry. Sorry. You're coming. My haters. Well, how it hits for me is I think that.

00:54:19:21 - 00:55:09:22
Unknown
This whole authenticity talk and figuring it out. And as you go to the deep stuff, it's like, who am I? And you know, that age old question that humans have been trying to figure out since, like, you know, the dawn of time, right? So since we've been humans, is an amazing question to ask. Right? Because I think that most men live in numbing and performance and what trying to fix their daddy issues.

00:55:09:24 - 00:55:42:17
Unknown
And trying to like, do for everyone else. Right. But then you talk about the flip side of the coin of what's the opposite of that? Like, do whatever I want, right? Like right. And having that code is the glue to keep you out of jail and also a living life. Right? And being.

00:55:42:19 - 00:56:20:14
Unknown
Being, you know, figuring out what makes you tick and figuring out what brings you fulfillment and, and the glue is part of the glue is service. Part of the glue is love. And part of the glue is brotherhood. Right? To where if you don't know it, your community is there. If you have a good, hopefully you have a good community of men around you to you know when we when when we make mistakes to kick us, slap us or hug us back on track.

00:56:20:16 - 00:56:43:22
Unknown
Yeah bro, thugs need hugs. They also sometimes need an uppercut like a slap in a hug. You know, sometimes some guys need a slap and a hug verbally or physically. You know, if if it's if it reaches that level and. So yeah that for me that's that's where it hits where it's like that. The recipe to authenticity. Authenticity.

00:56:43:22 - 00:57:17:19
Unknown
And it just acknowledging that there's always going to be masks. And just like that's just part of being human. Where it's where it's just part of life. And the bed that we're, we really want to get to in this conversation where we spent most of the time is the recipe for authenticity. And mixing that all together between love, honesty, and community and the code.

00:57:17:21 - 00:57:44:00
Unknown
Is where it's at. And how do you how do you paint that? How do you get figure that out for yourself and you know. I don't know if we have all the answers, but we spent an hour talking about it. How can we possibly have all the answers when we don't even we don't even have the right questions?

00:57:44:02 - 00:58:13:10
Unknown
Sometimes the best question is. Not a question. Let me let me share something with you before we leave here today. And by the way, you should definitely titled this session. Why? There's a mask in masculinity. See what I did there? I used my brain to do a funny thing a walk, a walk, there is a mask.

00:58:13:10 - 00:58:34:16
Unknown
There has to be. Here's why. It's kind of like if we were all invisible, we sort of shoot, like, ghosts or something, and so sheets over us so that we can all see each other. Right? And, you know, one sheet has, you know, a whatever checkered pattern, another sheet is black, another sheet is white, another sheet is brown, yellow, red.

00:58:34:18 - 00:59:01:24
Unknown
You know, one has a peacock on it, one has a wolf, whatever. Like there's all these different, different, you know, sort of wrappers that we put around our energy. Right. Because we are we're not humans having a spiritual experience. We're energy having this. You have an experience. So I don't think mask is a bad word. The problem with mask is when you take one of your masks too seriously, right?

00:59:02:01 - 00:59:18:14
Unknown
You go into the universal dress up box of life and you say, today I'm going to be a pirate. Today I'm going to be a princess. Today I'm going to be a poet. Today I'm going to be a pauper. Yes, these are Frank Sinatra lyrics. I told you I was Italian speaking of father wounds. And we're back.

00:59:18:16 - 00:59:53:18
Unknown
My father wore a mask to his grave. His mask was Tony pro, Las Vegas. He absolutely. He understood personal branding. Way before the internet was the thing. It was character actor Tony Pro. He became Tony pro, and he committed to the to the stick. What? I think the best thing we can do as men is to recognize that no matter what, you know what little costume we've taken out of the out of the dress up box to be.

00:59:53:20 - 01:00:20:07
Unknown
We're allowed to. We're allowed to play that character, but we're not obligated. Don't be so committed that to your character that that you forget what you really are. You're whatever you were before you made that choice. And if you don't like it, you can change it. Yo, Andrew, can I get an amen? Amen. All right, well, if you've been listening to this, I appreciate you.

01:00:20:07 - 01:00:52:14
Unknown
We are being authentic, and we're guys who do a thing. And the thing is that, we are men who are husbands, fathers, brothers, sons. And we believe that in this day and age, masculinity is a hot topic because the landscape has changed, and with it, masculine identity is changing. What does it mean to be a healthy male?

01:00:52:16 - 01:01:35:02
Unknown
As a coach who has walked through the fire and earned his stripes and paid the iron price for the wisdom that, I am offering in these conversations, we believe that masculinity is constantly being updated, amended and rewritten, and it's being updated, amended, and rewritten by men. So if you're if you're a man, you're an author, and we're interested in your voice and what you contribute to masculinity, and if you're a man, we appreciate that you're receptive to some of the ideas that we're sharing because there is a hive mind.

01:01:35:04 - 01:02:08:18
Unknown
This is a brotherhood. And at the end of the day, we love you. We respect you, and we want to keep you not only alive, but happy because the world either succeeds or fails by masculine, healthy, masculine leadership where men with good dads are the best men who either have good dads or have overcome terrible fathering experiences and have become good dads, are the future.

01:02:08:20 - 01:02:41:08
Unknown
So if you're picking up or you're we're putting down here today, we encourage you to, I don't know, do the thing. What what do they do? What's our outro on this? Sandra you do the thing like subscribe, comment. This is your first episode. Take a look at the last four. All different structures, all different topics, but just pay attention because we're building something here and you're being taking part in something that we think is going to make a difference.

01:02:41:10 - 01:02:49:15
Unknown
So thanks for being here. Cool story. All right, on that note, catch you on the flip side, fellas. Thanks for thanks for listening.